Last post Wed, Jun 18 2008 6:10 PM by BMWgirl. 79 replies.
ducky01: Becky: Ditto. Also, I don't think he's funny at all, no matter what he's talking about. Becky I can see where a lot of folks would be offended by his sense of humor - it is certainly "over the top." But he doesn't just rag on disabled folks, he rags on everybody. He's an "equal opportunity annoyer," lol. I think what I find funny is that he does actually say the shocking things that no one would dream of saying, but that some folks do actually think, and then puts it out on a pedestal so people can see it for it's unattractiveness. To me, that's what makes it funny, because you can look at it and say "Geeze, isn't that stupid?" Then again, I like comedians of all kinds. I have an oversized funny-bone, I think. One of my favorites used to be Robin Williams. He's still funny, but now I look at him and wonder how much of his original material was drug-induced from his old cocaine habit, and feel kind of sad that someone with that kind of talent for making people laugh felt like he needed to "turbo-charge" it with drugs. Have you ever heard some of Bill Cosby's old stuff, back when he was doing mostly standup? We had an album when I was a kid called "200 Miles per Hour" that was just a complete scream.
Becky: Ditto. Also, I don't think he's funny at all, no matter what he's talking about. Becky
Ditto. Also, I don't think he's funny at all, no matter what he's talking about.
Becky
I can see where a lot of folks would be offended by his sense of humor - it is certainly "over the top." But he doesn't just rag on disabled folks, he rags on everybody. He's an "equal opportunity annoyer," lol. I think what I find funny is that he does actually say the shocking things that no one would dream of saying, but that some folks do actually think, and then puts it out on a pedestal so people can see it for it's unattractiveness. To me, that's what makes it funny, because you can look at it and say "Geeze, isn't that stupid?"
Then again, I like comedians of all kinds. I have an oversized funny-bone, I think. One of my favorites used to be Robin Williams. He's still funny, but now I look at him and wonder how much of his original material was drug-induced from his old cocaine habit, and feel kind of sad that someone with that kind of talent for making people laugh felt like he needed to "turbo-charge" it with drugs. Have you ever heard some of Bill Cosby's old stuff, back when he was doing mostly standup? We had an album when I was a kid called "200 Miles per Hour" that was just a complete scream.
Oh yeah, Robin Williams is a funny guy. However, I don't see much of a difference in him from years ago on the cocaine to now, he's pretty hyper either way, LOL. Bill Cosby is funny too. I loved when he would talk about his kids getting into trouble. I've never heard the "200 Miles Per Hour" album. George Carlin, also very funny. His "Seven Deadly Words" album was a riot. Richard Pryor was a gas. I just never found Carlos Mencia to ever be that funny.
I just don't like anyone making fun of someone with a disability. Maybe I'm just kind of soft-hearted that way. I just don't think it's right. It's up there with the racial comments on my taboo list.
Have a nice day!
Becky: Oh yeah, Robin Williams is a funny guy. However, I don't see much of a difference in him from years ago on the cocaine to now, he's pretty hyper either way, LOL. Bill Cosby is funny too. I loved when he would talk about his kids getting into trouble. I've never heard the "200 Miles Per Hour" album. George Carlin, also very funny. His "Seven Deadly Words" album was a riot. Richard Pryor was a gas. I just never found Carlos Mencia to ever be that funny. I just don't like anyone making fun of someone with a disability. Maybe I'm just kind of soft-hearted that way. I just don't think it's right. It's up there with the racial comments on my taboo list. Have a nice day! Becky
I can understand not wanting to see disabled folks being made fun of. I just see it differently when it's a comedian as opposed to someone out on the street, I suppose. And, I LOVED George Carlin (still do). When I was teenage, I had several of his albums. "Class Clown," was one of my favorites. He completely ripped on attending parochial school and the nuns there. Since my parents had us in parochial school when I was a kid, I could appreciate the humor. My mother thought he was irreverent, and hated the way he spoke about the nuns, who were, as she put it "women who had opted to give their entire lives to Christ," and thus should not be mocked. Eh, different strokes for different folks. Was never big on Richard Pryor, but used to like Flip Wilson - he did so much physical comedy.
hugs from ducky
One last post from me.. The reason some things that people joke about are funny is because you don't normally talk about them in everyday life (didn't someone try to make that point already) and it opens doors to discussion on the topic for instance I really feel that child molesters should automatically get the death penalty no time no questions but that's me.. If someone jokes about something that most would never talk about then it give them to thought and people can say what they think or feel on a given subject..
But as I said I think someone has already made that point.. Anyway, like it or not these things the jokes and all are out there and they all need to be thought about and talked about even if some may not like it.. Funny or not talk and say what YOU feel, good or bad YOU have every right to say what YOU feel even if no one likes it or agrees with you..
GACatmandu:One last post from me.. The reason some things that people joke about are funny is because you don't normally talk about them in everyday life (didn't someone try to make that point already) and it opens doors to discussion on the topic for instance I really feel that child molesters should automatically get the death penalty no time no questions but that's me.. If someone jokes about something that most would never talk about then it give them to thought and people can say what they think or feel on a given subject..
Who are these people who joke about things instead of talking about it rationally? I mean, if the jokes lead to discussion, that's good, but why not start with a discussion of it rather than seeking to offend people or alienate them? That just doesn't make sense and is absolutely contrary to my anecdotal experience.
GACatmandu: But as I said I think someone has already made that point.. Anyway, like it or not these things the jokes and all are out there and they all need to be thought about and talked about even if some may not like it.. Funny or not talk and say what YOU feel, good or bad YOU have every right to say what YOU feel even if no one likes it or agrees with you..
Again, there is a difference between having a rational, open dialogue about these things and joking about them. As I have already stated, I talk about these things every week, at the very least, in my classes. We don't joke about them, we don't legitimize them in any way. It isn't necessary to do that.
"I believe everything out of the common. The only thing to distrust is the normal."John Buchan
Liesl:[Who are these people who joke about things instead of talking about it rationally? I mean, if the jokes lead to discussion, that's good, but why not start with a discussion of it rather than seeking to offend people or alienate them? That just doesn't make sense and is absolutely contrary to my anecdotal experience.
[Who are these people who joke about things instead of talking about it rationally? I mean, if the jokes lead to discussion, that's good, but why not start with a discussion of it rather than seeking to offend people or alienate them? That just doesn't make sense and is absolutely contrary to my anecdotal experience.
I know, I know, I said I was done, but I just could not help myself when I read this. Who are these people? I believe they are called "comedians," which was sort of the point of the initial post, that Carlos Mencia is a comedian. As it happens, curiously enough, when comedians perform, they don't usually start the gig with a discussion. They start with jokes. Does that make sense to your anecdotal experience?
Liesl:Again, there is a difference between having a rational, open dialogue about these things and joking about them. As I have already stated, I talk about these things every week, at the very least, in my classes. We don't joke about them, we don't legitimize them in any way. It isn't necessary to do that.
I will concede, gladly, that it is NOT necessary to legitimize offensive material, but the fact is that there is a lot of offensive material out there. And, some people find it funny, others do not. Just because some folks disagree with what is funny and what is not does not make anyone who does not jump on the same bandwagon more incorrect than anyone else. As I have said <i>repeatedly</i>, instead of just saying it offends you, and it is wrong, use the offensive material to open a dialogue and discuss WHY it offends you. Example, "Carlos Mencia tells jokes about disabled people, and I find some of his jokes offensive because they don't portray disabled persons in an accurate light. His jokes come across as a person who is bitter and against certain rights and priviledges for the disabled." Aside from agreeing with a few people who actually HAVE stated why they find his humor offensive (Billy, Becky, Shesabibliophile, etc.) you have offered no input of your own, other than to reiterate that you feel it's wrong, it's offensive, that's it, that's that. And, no you did not use those exact words, but that seemed, to me, to be the tone of your posts.
Now, feel free to rebut my post and get that last word in so that you can feel superior to those of us who are so incredibly wrong for disagreeing with you.
Becky and others, you have to realize that some people will be offended by a peanut butter sandwich. They live their lives looking for things that are "offensive" or they find "offensive". Then, if we don't agree with them, we are then the target of their attack.
Example: I was given the nickname of Crutch when I was a kid in sports. I carried it my whole life. I like it. When I was in college, as a student for Adapted PE, my advisor heard me being called it and it was on my jacket. So called me aside and said it was offensive and asked that I not use it or wear that jacket again. I told her under no uncertain terms "NO".
Personally, I thought there was some truth to Carlos' joke. Why do wheelers go striaght to the front of the line? Why can't they wait their turn like everyone else? Hell, they (we) have a seat with us. It's just wrong to expect preferential treatment.
BTW, I took full advantage of the front of the line deal last time I was at Disney. Hell, I'm not stupid.
ducky01:I know, I know, I said I was done, but I just could not help myself when I read this. Who are these people? I believe they are called "comedians," which was sort of the point of the initial post, that Carlos Mencia is a comedian. As it happens, curiously enough, when comedians perform, they don't usually start the gig with a discussion. They start with jokes. Does that make sense to your anecdotal experience?
So, what you're saying is, anyone who makes a joke about these things is a comedian? Because the other poster (can't remember the name) was saying that jokes open up discussion with people who don't want to talk about these things. Since I was addressing my shock at these people who routinely don't want to talk about things, not at the comedian, I am assuming you mean them?
ducky01: I will concede, gladly, that it is NOT necessary to legitimize offensive material, but the fact is that there is a lot of offensive material out there. And, some people find it funny, others do not. Just because some folks disagree with what is funny and what is not does not make anyone who does not jump on the same bandwagon more incorrect than anyone else. As I have said <i>repeatedly</i>, instead of just saying it offends you, and it is wrong, use the offensive material to open a dialogue and discuss WHY it offends you. Example, "Carlos Mencia tells jokes about disabled people, and I find some of his jokes offensive because they don't portray disabled persons in an accurate light. His jokes come across as a person who is bitter and against certain rights and priviledges for the disabled." Aside from agreeing with a few people who actually HAVE stated why they find his humor offensive (Billy, Becky, Shesabibliophile, etc.) you have offered no input of your own, other than to reiterate that you feel it's wrong, it's offensive, that's it, that's that. And, no you did not use those exact words, but that seemed, to me, to be the tone of your posts.
I feel like I am banging my head against a wall here. Where did I ever, ever say that people can't find these things offensive? It was my understanding that when someone posts on a forum people are free to offer their opinions, whether they dissent or agree. Am I wrong about that? Why is it you repeatedly need to state that some people may find humor in things and others may not? I don't believe I ever said that wasn't true, nor was it the point of any of my posts. My point has been and remains, I find it offensive, I don't like it, and I will always speak up when I find something worth discussing. You are free to do the same. Obviously.
As for my lack of explanation: um... my first post in this thread: I agree with you, Palsy. He doesn't seem to get the point of equality at all. Like the sexual harrassment thing... wtf? What does that have to do with equality? Equality means we can say and do whatever we want? Um, no. Equality also has nothing to do with whether or not we can walk, something he doesn't seem to understand. Access is NOT about special privileges. Did you stop reading at "I agree with you"? From there, every single post I have made has been far more than an "I agree with whomever" post. Did you read them? I'm guessing not.
ducky01: Now, feel free to rebut my post and get that last word in so that you can feel superior to those of us who are so incredibly wrong for disagreeing with you.
It always cracks me up to NO END when people use a superior attitude to tell someone they have a superior attitude!
TriDog:Becky and others, you have to realize that some people will be offended by a peanut butter sandwich. They live their lives looking for things that are "offensive" or they find "offensive". Then, if we don't agree with them, we are then the target of their attack.
Actually... I'm OCD and one of my very off fears is peanut butter. Hmmm!
TriDog: Personally, I thought there was some truth to Carlos' joke. Why do wheelers go striaght to the front of the line? Why can't they wait their turn like everyone else? Hell, they (we) have a seat with us. It's just wrong to expect preferential treatment.
I agree with you about some of the truth there and the privileges some people expect or get that are not necessarily fair. I wasn't Magic Mountain, so I don't know if the line thingy could accomodate a chair with the turns they usually have. Maybe that was the case? I don't know.
TriDog: BTW, I took full advantage of the front of the line deal last time I was at Disney. Hell, I'm not stupid.
And here's the irony of this whoooooooooole thing: I wouldn't take advantage of it unless I truly was not physically capable of being in line.
TriDog: Becky and others, you have to realize that some people will be offended by a peanut butter sandwich. They live their lives looking for things that are "offensive" or they find "offensive". Then, if we don't agree with them, we are then the target of their attack.
You got that right. Tridog, you're not such a bad guy! I respect the strength of your convictions. I agree with many of your posts.
TriDog: Example: I was given the nickname of Crutch when I was a kid in sports. I carried it my whole life. I like it. When I was in college, as a student for Adapted PE, my advisor heard me being called it and it was on my jacket. So called me aside and said it was offensive and asked that I not use it or wear that jacket again. I told her under no uncertain terms "NO".
Good for you! I think she was trying to protect you, but she was patronizing you too.
TriDog: Personally, I thought there was some truth to Carlos' joke. Why do wheelers go striaght to the front of the line? Why can't they wait their turn like everyone else? Hell, they (we) have a seat with us. It's just wrong to expect preferential treatment. BTW, I took full advantage of the front of the line deal last time I was at Disney. Hell, I'm not stupid.
When I was in my wheelchair, I could get into a local movie theater for free! And so could my sons. All I had to do was sign a sheet of paper. Saved me a bunch of money. Don't be a hypocrite here though!
Maybe they are patronizing us, when they let people in chairs cut in line? But who wants to be responsible for causing someone in a chair possible harm (bedsores) by making them wait in line? I tend to believe most people are well-intentioned, as to wanting to help us, but they also feel sorry for us. I'm rambling here. Staying up too late. Nite.
Just found Josh Blue's Bio READ the forth parogragh:
found at: http://joshblue.typepad.com/
Josh's Bio
Josh Blue (born November 27, 1978) is an American comedian with cerebral palsy. Many of his jokes center around living with his disability, how he deals with it, and how other people view him.
Blue was born in Ngaoundéré, Cameroon, where his father was teaching in a mission, and grew up in St. Paul, Minnesota. He currently resides in Denver, Colorado.
Blue got his start in comedy doing open-mic sets while attending The Evergreen State College. Audiences reacted enthusiastically to his self-deprecating humor, and Blue started making a name for himself on the comedy circuit.
Josh's comedy career has taken off in the past few years especially. He has appeared several times on Comedy Central's "Mind of Mencia" and won $10,000 as the grand prize winner of the Royal Flush Comedy Competition. He has appeared on MSNBC, NBC, Fox news, and Fox Sports Net. Blue also was nominated for the Best Diversity Event of 2006, for which he received a standing ovation.
He is also an excellent soccer player and was part of the 2004 U.S. Paralympic team.
Blue's highest-profile gig to date has been as been on NBC's Last Comic Standing series, during the summer of 2006, which he won.
Currently, Josh Blue performs all over the United States appearing at college campuses, corporate events and top comedy clubs.
found at :
Now here's a question if a comic who has cerebral palsy has no problem going on Carlos' show should anyone else have a problem with Carlos telling jokes about the handicapped. Because this kind makes it clear that Josh Blue doesn't..
Think what you want, say what you want.. You don't have to like it or whatever but there are many handicapped people who get it including Josh Blue..
Now this is my last post in this topic!!
GACatmandu:Now here's a question if a comic who has cerebral palsy has no problem going on Carlos' show should anyone else have a problem with Carlos telling jokes about the handicapped. Because this kind makes it clear that Josh Blue doesn't..
I don't see what that has to do with people thinking Mencia and his jokes are offensive. I can't answer for Josh Blue or his preferences and he is certainly not my arbiter of what is offensive or not offensive.
GACatmandu: Think what you want, say what you want.. You don't have to like it or whatever but there are many handicapped people who get it including Josh Blue.. Now this is my last post in this topic!!
Again, people can still "get it" and find it offensive.
I just wrote a blog post on this subject and I'd be curious to know what y'all think. I think it might be best to keep the comments here since the blog comments aren't as interactive and don't always work. So what do y'all think?
I thought that your blog entry was very well expressed. I saw Psycho Beach Party many yeara ago, also before I became handicapped, and agree with your points regarding letting disabled folks be as "real" as AB folks, with all the flaws and foibles and character distinguishments. We're never going to agree on Carlos (that ship has sailed, sorry), but I can agree with a lot of the points you made in your blog. Strangely enough, and maybe I am a rarity in this, my perspective on being disabled has not changed substantially since I became disabled. Perhaps this was because I grew up with friends and relatives that had various disabilities, and not all people were so fortunate to have that kind of diversity in their upbringing.
"Cruel kidding doesn't do that; cruel kidding just pokes fun at the thing without any kind of redemptive value. Oh, yes! I think that's the heart of the issue. Funny how much writing something down can help you clarify your thinking,"
This is a most excellent quote, and is, I agree, the heart of the issue. While everyone is going to find different things funny or offensive, it's the redemptive value that will define it in the end. That is the point I was trying to make about Carlos Mencia's humor. Even though many people find him offensvie, there can be a redemptive value in someone's own reaction to them, and in how they respond. If someone is making jokes that you find cruel or offensive, you can use those jokes as a segue into discussion over why they are offensive and how the assumptions they make is incorrect. You can walk away and not support the offensive person, but USE the offense to open the discussion. I think your blog post actually succeeded in doing that. I wasn't thrilled with PBP, because I thought the plot was a little on the unbelievable side, and more than a little lame and quickly thrown together (then again, a lot of teen horror flicks of that time were). But, as you said in your blog, at least the crabby lady in the wheelchair was allowed to be crabby, and not forced into the role of "St. Agatha on Wheels." That was a redeeming quality to it all.
If you want to see a really funny disabled comic go to: www.randyciak.com/jeff
He cracks me up.
Diane Laffin
Oh my God!!!! I forgot how funny that set was, thanks for sharing!
