Last post Tue, May 20 2008 12:29 AM by John H. Pieper. 27 replies.
I have been a member since last July and been in chat since that time.
I have had some enjoyable conversations in chat and met some interesting people. Which is why I keep comming back to chat. We even had some great chats on specific topics, like SCI, pain management, or working with a disability.
However more and more often I have found the General chatroom has been a less and less pleasant place to be. Often it seems like a mass of jokes and emoticons being traded. Jokes about drinking, drugs and sex, when there are teens in the room worries me. People looking for dates who don't take "no" for an answer." Other times I have seen personal attacks. I have seen negative comments about people's sexual orientations. Including mine, actually. And through all this I see new people come in with specific questions about disability who can't get a word in edgewise.
And as long as these conversations are the first thng newcomers see, people are going to leave the chatrooms. In droves. And most of them will not stop to post the whys and wherefores, they just won't come back.
I've proposed this before and I am proposing it again. Chat needs rules clearly stated. Is dating conversation to be kept in the Dating Room or all over the place? What about adult topics when there are teens around? What about prostylizing or calling people "crazy" due to differeing opinions? Without specific guidelines, chat can be pleasant or it can run amok, and the people who try to speak out are then jumped on.
I don't actually object to discussions about sex, politics and religion, so long as everyone present is comfrotable with the subject matter and it is a discussion, not an argument, a personal attack or a prostytizing session. Sometimes we have managed this in chat but more often it turns into a screaming match.
It would be very helpful to have a teen room, and also an adult conversations room. Not to turn the general room into either of those things, because I think it is good to have people of all ages learning from each other, but to have specific spaces for adult only conversation and a specific space that is free from adult topics. In addition, the rules need to be clearly stated so that those who speak up for the rules can then be supported rather than attacked. If moderators or administration were to stop by chat even a half an hour each once or twice a week, I think that would be helpful as well.
Having a disabilty related chat is SUCH a good idea. I just hate to see people driven away or feel driven away myself. Please take some of the comments in this thread as a serious sign of the realities of the chat room in its current form.
dawn, I left a note to you on your private message board. Please, I agree with the others we can talk on these post, you don't have to leave people like me who care. Your Disaboom Friend, Sandy
Hi Dawn and all,
I'm Kara, a member and moderator here. I know Disaboom staff has been diligently working on improving the chat for quite some time now. It's not an immediate fix because the site prides their respect of us (people with disabilities) as capable adults that can make decisions and don't need to be "protected" per say...So it's a balance between providing freedom and stopping abuse. What makes it even trickier is that when members experience abuse in the chatroom they often make a complaint but have no transcript of what transpired. Because it wouldn't be fair if a random person was banned just because someone else said they said something-these complaints are important because the person is genuinely upset but really nothing can be done...so PLEASE if someone's abusive in the chatroom and they clearly violate the TOU's copy the transcript and private message it to a moderator ASAP. When there's evidence to back up your claim, the abusers can be weeded out and I think we'll all get to enjoy a more peaceful environment.....Remember you can always do this if you witness an attack on others-you don't have to be the victim.
Kara you and I have chatted during the wee hours a few times. Though I can be pretty outspoken at this point a lot of what is going on seems to be a power struggle and some of the things said in chat just don't bring out the best in me. I have seen some pretty mean behavior especially by certain women towards other women, hence my cat fight comment earlier. For awhile I got caught up in all of it because I only saw the good that is deep within the regulars in the chat room. Then some things began to surface that I really didn't much like in certain people. Technically its not abusive but it is disruptive and more than a little petty. Females will go after other females based on something that was PMd to a male in the room etc. It's like high school where the clique feels they need to trash another girl in order to be top dog. While these "regulars" are lecturing the new females for their behavior I have seen the males that are being defended make posts about women's pussies etc. and all they get is a "behave". It's become tiresome and I know more than a few "regulars" don't like the fact that I have addressed their behavior openly and told them that they are themselves stirring the pot all the time. Do I think moderators are needed, no. Will I keep "telling it like it is" yes and when someone really bothers me I will just leave them be, unless they become disruptive to the rest of the room. People need to take responsibility for themselves and their own behavior. This is flat out ridiculous and so those of you who are reading this who frequent chat, no one needs a nanny and the chat is not your private domain. To my late night buddies, PLEASE DON'T GO ANYWHERE our conversations are wonderful and I don't know what I would do without you.
I know how you feel Dawn. I wanted to leave myself a few months ago. I missed Disaboom though and decided to come back. I come to Disaboom every night and love to read all the comments. I have only gone into the chat room once and met a lot of nice people there. I prefer to stay in the discussion forums. We have all done and said the wrong thing at one time or another, whether it's out of anger or getting caught up in something. Don't leave. Don't let anyone bully you out of here.
Becky
Newdawn, if I was one of the people who drove you out of the chat room, please accept my sincere apology. I always enjoy a good religous debate but know that it annoys a lot of people and usually suggest to the other person that we take it to another room. It seems that Sex, Religion, and Politics are the main problems here, and that the Sports, Care Giving, and other chat rooms are seldom used at all. Maybe they should be renamed for these topics? I have often gone to chat with questions about my new SCI and found them swept under the rug in favor of sexual banter, and it is easy to get caught up in that rather than be left out of the loop. Chat is about people sharing the human experience. I don't think teenagers will be any more sullied than they are from watching television. Personally, I don't like seeing Obama's face when I come to Disaboom. I don't have anything against the man, I just don't think that this place should take a stand for any candidate.
Hi Kara, I've been chewing this subject over night and I've decided to ask you if you would comment on some potential feedback and suggestions in relation to this post.
Is it possible to perhaps re-name the chat rooms with the website designers? Sex and religion when you are 'suddenly disabled' seems high on a lot of people's agendas, either because they now find themselves moving away from their spouse, else their mental/emotional and physical state of being has been altered. It seems to me that religion also, albeit a volatile subject area is something that a huge percentage of the disabled community is turning to in order to seek potential answers for their dilemas as a disabled person?
Perhaps, instead of hearing moan after moan about these being brought into a General chat room and complaints therefore being made by lots of people, the site could address these by actually allowing a forum for those who inevitably wish to discuss these areas? I do not advocate the use of derogatory explitives however some allowances could be made using the correct medical terms ie. vagina, penis etc?
I also wondered if it would be possible to suggest that a pop-up window states the T & C's for each chat room PRIOR to the actual chat screen and that a box asking you to accept these BEFORE entry would avoid any further confusion and perhaps then the moderators, although they are not available 24/7 could peek in now and again, knowing which chat room has which rules and therefore 'policing' is kept within strict guidelines for moderators and visitors alike and everyone will have no choice but to accept that each forum is STRICTLY for the use of its said title??
Anyway, its just some of the thoughts from myself and my fellow friendly Disaboomers!!
Thank you for your input everyone. Any suggestions, please keep em coming. With the site in its relative infancy, it's perhaps the users who need to make constructive critisism rather than anything else?!
Kara I very much appreciate your input but I think administration is missing my point.
Obviously in an ideal world we would be able to police ourselves and not need "protection." However I think that the posts in this thread and others would suggest this is not the case in the current reality. For one thing, while I am in no way blaming the teens for the chat problems, it is not accurate to state that everyone in chat is an adult. I have seen occasionally children as young as 11. Secondly, the problems in chat are widespread and need a measured approach. There are two ways to create a pleasant chat environment and deal with problems. One is reactively. The other is proactively.
What is currently policy is a reacitve approach. Chat is assumed to be perfectly fine except for a few disruptive elements. Members are then expected to "report" these few disruptive people and send evidence towards a possible ban. Pehaps after some time and deliberation, one individual is banned. Then chat is assumed to be fine again until another specific disruption occurs. Admin is expected to be reacting to indivually problematic individuals. Honestly its a bit "head in the sand."
What I am instead recommending is a proactive approach. Move the emphasis away from reporting and banning individuals and towards faciliating a helpful environment for all. State the rules clearly at the outset so we all know what they are. State specific guidlines about appropriate language, specific guidelines about discussion topics. If you like, create a chat room where there ARE no such rules, for those who dislike censorship, but then create another one with some stated guidelines so people can have a clear choice. This would empower members to remind each other of the rules and give others a chance to respond positively. "Ban" doesn't need to enter in to most of these discussions. The issues in chat are so widespread that banning specific people is likely to be ineffective in most cases and just perpetuates a negative atmosphere. Furthermore, often people who are off-putting on one day may be amazingly helpful on another. The overall problem is not specific people, but the realm of accepted (or rather, unchecked) behavior.
I say this every time: please have some members of aministration either stop by chat from time to time or read transcripts. Then have them ask themselves - is this the chat climate we WANT here on Disaboom? If the answer is yes, that's fine. I suspect there would be many hours of many evenings, however, where the answer would be no.
I don't send in transcripts every time I experience frustrating language for several reasons. One would be that I would be sending in mail constantly! Also there is a difference between true "abusive" language and the more. .. shall I say off-putting? inuendo and insults I see frequently. But more, I don't think is appropriate becuase I am really not intersted in getting individuals "banned" or "in trouble." For example, if member A states an opinion and member B's response is "you're crazy," I don't believe member B should be banned just for that statement. However I do think there should be a stated policy something like "argue with people's opinions, don't put people down personally." Then member A could say (or member C on member A's behalf ,or a moderator) "we don't call people 'crazy' here." And this would give member B a chance to stop and think. Only if he or she then escalates the situation would it be a problem worth reporting. Right now those who speak up against language like that are the ones who get jumped on.
As things currently stand, assuming we can police ourselves will lead to one inevitable outcome: those who would be more likely to contribute to a topical, productive discussion are more likely to drift away from the chat room. New people wanting advice will come in, see chat has become a banter of emoticons, inuendo and insults, and leave. If this is what Disaboom wants from chat, perhaps that could be clearly stated and those of us who are not interested can simply stay away. However I strongly suspect that driving away the very people who wish to discuss life with a disability is NOT what Disaboom has in mind.
mcjane: Personally, I don't like seeing Obama's face when I come to Disaboom. I don't have anything against the man, I just don't think that this place should take a stand for any candidate.
Personally, I don't like seeing Obama's face when I come to Disaboom. I don't have anything against the man, I just don't think that this place should take a stand for any candidate.
Dr. House stated that Disaboom was in talks with the other candidates to get them to participate on Disaboom but the only candidate who has, so far, taken them up on the offer is Barack Obama. The site doesn't endorse him, he is simply the only candidate who chose to participate in the site.
"Important events are obscure. Some believe all manner of hearsay evidence; others twist truth into fiction; and time magnifies both perversions."Tacitus
I LOVE the idea of stating terms of use, rules, and/or ettiquette at the start of chat EVERY time a member logs into chat...I don't have a memory problem (most of the time!) but I think it would be a great help to everyone and a proactive approach is definitely what's needed....I hope that administrators strongly consider that for the next update (or before) because the TOU's are a little hard to find for some members, especially if they only frequent chat. To me, they are common sense but that's not a universal system of beliefs.
While I know this thread was started and hasn't cured hurt feelings and frustrations, I am glad that we can come together and really brainstorm what could help the situation-it seems the ideas are getting more creative and moving away from the extremes. I like it....so if you have other ideas, keep em coming!
Jim Ray.....Polo Horses, how cool! Would love to be doing what you do. Why do your teeth chatter? Oh and there is an easier way to type in larger font by going to options I believe it is(I did it and have like advanced something or other), and changing settings. Wish I could remember exactly how it is done and be more helpful. Ride on...
Man oh man am I glad I don't get enough online time to hang out in the chat rooms. Sounds like Jr. High school again. I wish all the chatters well anyhow and hopefully this will be worked out.
Sherry
Hello,
Sorry to hear about that experience you had. I hope with the changes things become better. Unfortunately, Some time rude people are still just rude people with disabillities. There are lots of reasons for why one individual would choose to act out like that. But those are resons---not an Excuse of the bad behavior.
