Last post Sat, Jul 12 2008 9:41 PM by ratd. 16 replies.
I am disabled and use a power wheelchair. I am very active, and depend on the reliability of my wheelchair to maintain my independence. Last August I received a new wheelchair, a TDX SP with a tilt, and have had nothing but problems with it from day one. I am, unfortunately, usually alone when the malfunctions happen, and this can be pretty scary. Two of these are potentially dangerous, particularly in the summertime when I’m often outside and alone. I have heard through the grapevine that many, many other people are experiencing similar problems and that some wheelchair companies have stopped selling the chair because of this. I have managed to get a home movie of a couple incidents, and have posted them on youtube for anyone who is interested at the following link: http://www.youtube.com/user/lburg22
Right now, I would like to compare notes!!
This wheelchair was sold throughout the country, and if enough people with this particular model are having the same problems we have a potential class action lawsuit .
The problems are:
1) The motors will not fully disengage when the chair is taken out of gear. This means that the chair can’t be taken out of gear properly so someone can push the wheelchair if I have an equipment failure or need help.
2) The chair pitches forward unexpectedly and dangerously during transfers, sudden stops in van, or when wheeling downhill. I have video of this posted on youtube at the following link:
3) The motors, gear-box, suspension, and front caster mechanisms all needed replacing within weeks of receiving the chair. I was told all the wheel mechanisms are metal on metal, making them prone to frequent breakdown.
4) The rear wheel forks are badly constructed and sharp. They are raw, sharp metal and stick out further than the tire itself. If I am in close quarters, such as my mothers’ bathroom, and touch the wall with the rear tires, the raw metal invariably scrapes whatever surface it touches as I try to change direction and the wheels turn. Even if I’m barely moving, the forks scrape as I change direction. This is not a serious problem compared with the other three points, but the people whose walls have been damaged find it important.
If you have any input, please comment on this website or send e-mail to wheelchair1011@aol.com
Knowing Where and Who paid for the chair is needed if you want advice here... at least I think it is... If your insurance paid for it, then they need to take action on your behalf, if a wheelchair store got it for you and you bought, and have a waranty on it, they need to take action on your behalf Did you keep your older chair so you have a back up handy ?? Can you walk at all on your own, or are you totally unable to walk ?? Can you use a manual chair while you wait for a better one or get yours fixed ??
I hope you find answers, don't give up !!
Your wheelchair should never compromise your safety or independence. You did not say if you have contacted your DME dealer or Invacare with your problems.
As to tipping. The TDX SP is midwheel drive with six wheels on the ground and should not tip forward unless your seat pan is not secured. I drive from my power chair with an EZ Lock system that prevents forward or rearward tipping. As a passenger I use
Q Straints fore and aft which keep the chair in place.
Your other issues seem to be fixable. The motor disengagement device on my chair (Jazzy) is a cable release, which I have replaced once in seven years of service, yours may be the same. Take your chair to an automotive body shop and if feasible, have them grind down and smooth out your rear wheel forks. I am going to remove the canes on my chair for similar reasons.
I've found that a certain amount of modification is necessary for chairs to suit my needs.
I looked up the specs on your wheelchair for the tilting problem and they offer two different options, one for under 300 lb user and for $512 more you can get the one for under 400 lb user. I seen your video and (I am not trying to be rude) I seen you are a plus size (but at guessing I would not say you have reached either of those limits). What I am wondering is maybe the tilt option you got for your wheelchair will not operate because of the weight, maybe have someone else who is lighter try to get it to tilt also.
When I order my manual wheelchairs, I have not got one of them with the correct options that I choose. Or maybe the stabilizers for the tilt are just malfunctioning. Either way I would say take it back to a Invacare rep to have them look at it no matter who paid for it because it should not do that I would say. Same with the engaging problems.
For the wheel problem I would look into bigger wheels for the small casters. See how tall of wheels would fit. If you mention what city you are in maybe someone close could come look and see what options you have to fixing this chair. If you are in centeral Arkansas I am sure I could help you out with it or if you want to take some up close pictures and post them on here, I tried to look at the video but when you zoom in it is all grainy and hard to see.
Wheels, I've viewed your video several times and surmised:
1. You seem to slouch forward when in the chair, placing more weight onto the front wheels. Suggestion--sit back toward the rear of the seat cushion, or tilt the chair enough to shift you weight rearward.
2. I could not see the rear forks projecting past the wheels. Most power chairs require 45 inches at a minimum to do a 360 turn. I find the standard hallway width to be 42 inches, therein is your problem in your mom's house.
You have not said if you have contacted Invacare or your DME provider. You do, however, seem bent on filing a lawsuit.
Just a friendly hi to you Here is ideas
Hi I finally jusst got to see your video thingie and if you arent happy with a product or something try something else ......I am not trying to be rude
Think of kids and See Saws ok ?
IMOP Your Center of gravity is way off Kilter ( Center) " sit more in the Seat not lay in it .
Mine a ol used 90's Scout large tire pneumatic model something very similar to yours . Every day I go up and down driveway No Problem . The machine I own is ancient but Great for my needs
Maybe you need a different electric chair
I am a big ol couhntry gal and body mass index told me I needed a big machine Mine is old and I havent had a problem with it .
My ol scout is a workhorse alot of operator problems are due to machine speed and operator but it is Not Always A machine that is the problem .
Like buying a car if it is practical and what you want then that is good
There usually is Return policies and Warranties etc.......
Every day I go down a front ramp that is nearly 4 feet high by x 12 feet long much steeper than your video .
I sit more back / upright I used to slouch
I am a quadraplegic and it is all in my center of gravity I plant my butt in the chair I dont lay in it .
So to aleviate that problem of Frontal tipping As you were doing I sit back more and I wont .
You are basically flat style slouching it is not safe
lawsuits etc Class action ? these machines are not monsters ....
Just get another machine or have it fixed etc.....
Frivilous stuff like this makes it harder and harder for so many ppl to get the needed medical items
As Warranties imply by such such date return it etc have it repaired or return it / trade for a different model to the company .
There is always options but lawsuits make medical life so much harder just my opinion .
I had friends who sat slouched actuallly fall / slip foward off their chairs because they went too fast and bust their tailbones or other limbs ... ouchie ....Not the wheel chair's fault these friends slouched .
As a ol rider motorcycle enthusiest I know the center of gravity
What I typed here is from my heart and experience .
Best Wishes
Sorry for my lousy spelling and grammer mistakes but I try
Keep smiling
Cordially ;
Missharley
Oh My Goodness! Where did you even get this thing?! What process did you go through? If you had worked with a physical therapist, he/she could have measured and assessed you correctly, asked you about your intended use, and worked with the company to make sure that you had the right chair. Obviously, this is the wrong chair for you. I know one doesn't like to think of their weight when doing things but in this case it's an important factor. Certain models of chairs are designed for certain weight ranges and this chair was just poorly matched to you. If I were just some scrawny toothpick(I'm definitely not) that didn't remotely understand your plight I wouldn't bother commenting. By having a chair that is too small for you, you run the risk of jeopardizing your safety. Furthermore, whoever sold you this thing has no scruples, they probably knew that model was dangerous and needed to unload it quick. As a sister powerchair user. here's my advice to you: I would suggest not to use those wheelchair stores, because those are just general chairs that will most likely not be customized to you. As a customer in those wheelchair stores, the store is counting on you being either too stupid to know what you need or in too big of a hurry to care about what you need (for the record, you strike me as neither) By having a physical therapist properly measure and assess you, they could then find the right model of chair for your size and use, customizing it to you. Also, they can also recommend a local equipment company from which to purchase your chair. I find that using a local company is better in that you are more likely to get repairs when you need them. Also, be aware that powerchairs can be fickle, they pick the worst times to break down on you, so it's best to keep a backup. Keeping a manual chair in addition to your powerchair, ensures that you are not left in too big of a lurch should the chair have to be taken out for repairs. One other thing, keep up with your replacement dates. Powerchairs are supposed to only last about 4 or 5 years before you need to replace it(although the rules in your state might be different). I would say take your time between chairs and subtract your approval time. For instance, if I replace my chair every 5 years and I remember that it takes 6 months for approval, then I need to start speaking to my vendor at the 4 1/2 year mark to begin replacement talk. Lastly, I can't tell you to sue or not to sue...I can only give you advice for what to do next time. Best of Luck!
Candygrrl80 (7yr. powerchair user)
Good morning gang
This was on my mind
Dear Video professor wheeliechair lady on youtubie
Your chair is not Compatible for your need's , some companies basically sell Generalized merchandise Chairs , Crutches for Avg % population But I am a large woman and I do not see poetic justice in me sitting myself in a power wheelchair made for a midget .it is unsafe IMOP
Now if all of us who drove these style Good elec wheelchairs powerchairs etc... & were to make a class action lawsuit Sooo many of us will ultimitely pay the price in the long run . less medical care and pissing off power chair people who work hard to make our lives easier . Analogy I dont wear shoes that are too small
common sense is looking for the proper size .
Yor therapist could help Remeasure you for a good fitting chair specified for your needs . like Candygrrrl said in her post ..... I agree with Candy
Best wishes and think positive
Have a good day
See yaz
gonna drink my homade pink country lemonade
Miss harley
This thing is good probably for a smaller person .
Being measured and analyzed closely by a therapist is a must for proper chair, cushion choices. I am undergoing demos and butt mapping, measuring, etc. for a new power chair. Last week my therapist spent more than four hours with me on chair selection and setting up demo drives. I will try a Permobil next week and then make a choice between it and an Invacare TDX SP, both with tilt and elevation.
No one else has signed onto this thread complaining about the TDX SP. I know this and other chairs have to pass safety and use standards and are subject to recall if a major defect if revealed. Frivolous lawsuits drive up the cost of chairs to the end users, you and me.
Properly sized and used, power chairs offer us freedom, independence and mobility.
Yikes! I just bought a new TDX SP tilt chair. I've had mine for 4 weeks and haven't had any problems yet. You got me worried though. If I have any problems I will let you know. The chair does seem uncomfortable but I think it is because I am not used to it yet. Also I noticed it is not as "heavy duty" as my original one. I get stuck in rocks and grass a lot more than I used to. And the worst part.....there is no cup holder option! Hope your chair quits acting up for you. Maybe you just got a lemon. If so...make boat drinks!--Greg
Hi Greg it wasnt me who bought the tdx chair you E mailed me about it .
My main chair is a 90's model large wheel scout and I have no problems with it and it has been with me a long time and it is 12- 14 yrs old approx . Ancient but it is working
I've been blessed to test so many models and styles the past year and from my experiences with the machine was all good , my room mate she had one . I dont know much about fancy schmancy terms but hers was a big nice jazzy .
you e mailed me accidently \ I really do not think the medical people Board of medical supplies what ever it is called .... would allow bad manufactured electric wheelchairs to the handicapped people .
And be marketed ...
There is always possibilities & flukes ideosyncracies in everything man made
But if someone orders the wrong chair or has felt it is too small etc .... and you are within warranty then contact who ever sold you your chairs and remedy the situation .
I got a dr appt
see ya all later
Sincerely
Good luck wasnt me who has this wheelchair problem it is the person in the first post on youtube videoprofessor thing ..... lol
My old wheelchair is ancient and still working .
Thank you all for your input. It was all helpful in different ways.
I’ve been struggling with this wheelchair for about a year now, and heard through the grapevine that quite a few others were having tipping, motor, and gear problems with this chair, and I wanted to find out how many. I was just very frustrated.
First of all, this was not the chair I thought I was ordering. I am exceptionally short, and wanted a TDX SE super low tilt. Because of Medicaid coverage issues, the dealer got me the TDX SP instead. Although their engineering is quite different the chairs look almost identical, and I didn’t realize until after I’d signed for it that it was not the super low tilt.
I don’t know how it is in other states, but under Medicaid rules in my state once you’ve signed for it, it’s yours, and anything else is up to the discretion of the dealer. I wanted to return it almost immediately due to height issues, and tried, but the dealer would not take it back. He did offer to do alterations to try and make it lower (it was too high for me to get into.) To do this they practically had to take the chair apart and put it back together again in a different way. I feel that some of the difficulties I’ve had might have to do with these extensive alterations, which would have been unnecessary in the low chair. The low one was an older model and has since been discontinued.
My doctor had recommended a tilt in the past, but I had always resisted because of height issues. A tilt always adds height. If the dealer had told me I wasn’t getting the super low tilt, I would have opted for a simple, traditional, rear wheel drive Quickie like I have now, without the tilt. I have coordination problems and find a rear wheel drive is more stable outdoors, easier to keep in a straight line. Instead the dealer just presented me with this chair and told me “it’s as low as it can go.”
As for me, I’m very non-technical, and didn’t try to be until it was too late. I’ve been disabled all my life, and grew up with a wonderful old German man who came to the physical therapy place, and spent hours and hours trying to get the kids chairs as comfortable as possible. Most modifications he did himself, from scratch. In those days, there was only one brand and a handful of models to choose from, and very few problems with insurance coverage. In my adult life, I’ve only had three power chairs, and although I had complicated seating issues, I always felt I was treated very well.
I went to a leading hospital in the area, to a PT, to get fitted for this chair. The initial seating was excellent, but was done on a “mock-up” as the dealer said he didn’t have the actual chair in stock. He kept saying,”don’t worry, yours won’t be this high.”
The PT was very young, and was excellent at seating issues, but not well versed in wheelchair hardware, and deferred to the dealers expertise. The dealer was extremely good looking and charming, but not real forthcoming with a variety of information. He only told us what he wanted us to know. Whenever I questioned the dealer too much, he either acted offended or made a joke. He kept telling me how complicated my seating issues were and how hard he and the PT were working on my behalf. He somehow made me feel as though I was calling not only him, but the therapist and the hospital into question.
I knew the super low tilt would work for me, because a friend had it, and I’d tried it. However, during these fitting sessions I never checked on the it’s model number, or asked for anything in writing stating what I’d be getting. Basically, I did everything wrong a consumer can do, because I didn’t want to offend anybody. I treated my dealer like a doctor and he reacted like a salesman.
I’m hoping my story can help others who might be reading this not to make the same mistakes. You have to be as informed when buying a wheelchair as when making any other major purchase.
Above all, don’t sign for anything unless you’re sure it’s right, no matter how much you’re pressured.
Things are not what they used to be back in the days of my kindly German gentleman. All the cuts in Medicare and Medicaid have really impacted the wheelchair industry. It’s hurting. It’s trying to find cheaper ways of making chairs. Medicaid pays more for brand new models than they do for older models, so the dealers make more selling the newer models. The wheelchair guys are salesmen first.
Unfortunately, they are also our main source of information on what is available. There is no Consumer Reports for wheelchairs. Some of you have mentioned therapists that sound absolutely marvelous, and sound like they do have expertise in the actual wheelchair hardware. Where do you find them??
As for the chair I now have, the TDX SP, I feel that some of the problems I’m having may be due to the extensive modifications that were made, I don’t know. I’ve only been using it for about 10 weeks in the eight months I’ve owned it, and don’t feel safe in it at all. Not counting the adaptions, it had the motors, gear-box, suspension, and front casters replaced before I had ever used it. On my second day of using it, I suddenly lost steering on the left side and started doing circles in the middle of a busy street. On the forth day, the seat belt feel off, and several days after that the tipping began. The tipping has bent the footrests. Because of all these mishaps, I discovered that the chair would not disengage properly.
If any of you are in the process of purchasing the chair, make sure it will disengage properly. I feel this is an extremely important safety issue. Also, ask about the wheel mechanisms. I was told mine were metal on metal, making them more prone to wear.
Mine was one of the first TDX SP’s they came out with. I’m sure they will correct whatever problems it has down the road, but under Medicaid rules I’ll be stuck with this one for the next 5 years.
IF MEDICARE PAID ANY PART OF YOUR CHAIR THEN YOUR PROVIDER MUST ACCEPT ANY PAYMENT FROM MEDICARE. THEY WILL ALSO PAY FOR ONE SET OF BATTERIES, AND ONE SET OF TIRES PER YEAR. MEDICARE WILL PAY FOR REPAIRS AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT DUE FROM CUSTOMER ABUSE. IT WOULD ALSO BE PRUDENT FOR YOUR PRIVATE INSURANCE TO PAY FOR REPAIRS, AS OPPOSED TO REPLACING THE CHAIR. HOPE THE INFO IS HELPFUL. DO NOT GIVE UP ON ONE TRY. KEEP ROLLING...
I have had the TDX SP since March and it has worked great for me. The only issue of the 4 you have had is #4 that it scrapes up stuff, then again the castors on my tilite manual do that too. I would agree with others about the center of gravity issue and that it is more prone to tipping as you show in the youtube video if you are farther forward. The chair has worked great for me to get around my college campus and I cannot wait to get back to school so I can use it again as my powerchair has to stay in Indiana where I go to school as I drive a Subaru Forester and live in NY so have no way to get it home in the summer, so I use my tilite manual at home.
Ok first I'm sorry I am a Rocket Scientist... Which means it hard for me to let you know what the problem is... so here it goes...
Your unbalanced... if you are trying to carry something say a 50 lb bag of bird seed... well most people will either pick it up by grabing around the center and holding in front of them selves, or put it on their sholder... Well if you hold the bottom of the bag it will fall over, or if you put 90 in the back it will be pulled away... were looking for a center...balance. First you chair is ment to tip forward at the right time... Your weight is to far foward, so we need to put more of it behind the center wheel... Now if we can move the chair back... Great... If we can raise the chair a bit so that you leg holders are another inch or two higher so the don't scrape when in this position.... Now ten to one the people who set up the chair did not set it up right... That is it was designed right... But the people in the field did not set the chair in the right possition... We need to work on it... Many other things you can do... A balance weight... Get that 50lb bag of seed and tie it behind the chair, not a good solution but it will move you center of gravity 50lb back... tip your chair back we need to get more of you or something else behind the center wheel... Now all this is complicated by the fact you are going down hill and your chair is made to run forward... Fast and Down Hill... not good. That is the big front guard wheel and the fact you can run on them... ie tilt forward... which as you might notice would help you if you were to work at a bench or sink or against a wall or some other task... I have the diagrams if you want and can work with you on how to balance the load... In fact their is a special calulator in the shuttle that just does that... After two weeks in space if you don't keep track of the weight you might get a bit of supprise when you come back and two much weight is on one side... especial when you consider you have front to back, top to bottom, left to right... Sorry to say it but your just a bit unbalance and not well adjusted... but I can help...
