Last post Sat, Aug 23 2008 4:54 AM by Scott. 60 replies.
I absolutely agree that swimming or other aqua exercise is great! I do not want to in any way diminish physical forms of pain reduction by remarking on "alternative medicine." I myself go to a "free swim" nearly daily, where, although I am in a wheelchair on land, I can do amazing things in the water. It is a way to be free with my body, and a joy for me. Dance therapists have a saying that "the mind will not move if the body doesn't move." I think they are right.
Ive had those injections as well, They never helped me , only made me worse.Im afraid to have anymore of them done and now I have to give up my pain management because I refuse to have the injections. Every time they do that to me..The pain in my back gets 100% worse and the pain meds do not help when its that bad. I guess they do work for some people, but not for me at all. Im still searching for some kind of non operative relief, but as of now , no luck. If anyone has any sugggestions, Im open to hear them,
Thanks,
Donna
Donna, you sound like my husband. This last epi he had did NOTHING for him. Out of 4 epidurals, he's gotten relief from only one, and it was very limited relief. He has decided NOT to return to his Pain Management doc, as the doc has all ready told him "No more epi's...you need surgery." Well, he sure isn't willing to just jump into surgery....he is trying to live it. Like you, the pain increases after each injection, even though his Pain doc tells him he'll get relief, "this time".... He does take an occassional pain med, but tries really hard not to. His doc refuses to give him anymore, even though they help him get thru a day at his job. Very physically demanding. I stopped having them, also. It's like sticking a bandaid over a huge gash!! Those epi's cost $4,000, and that's not even the docs fees included. No wonder they push them...they stand to make a small fortune dragging out a condition.
Have you ever considered accupuncture? Try swimming, too. Swimming helped me a lot. Just the stretching aspect of swimming made me feel tons better, and I was far less stiff in the AM's....
These docs amaze me with their demanding "we" have the epidurals's over & over...when they don't work. For those few that DO get relief from them, cool.....for those that are not getting relief, stop wasting your time and money and your insurance companies money.
Unfortunately, epidurals do not work sometimes for a variety of reasons. Here are a few:
You are getting a "blind" epidural, withut the use of a C-Arm image. Studies have shown that there is a 30% miss rate doing epidurals blind. All that is it doing is giving you systemic steroids, which actually may help some, but not really.... If you are diabetic, you now have to struggle with a higher blodd sugar for no good reason then.
You may have disk scarring. Epidurals may help some, but there are other techniques and approaches to the spine to break up the scarring, although with limited success.
You may have an extruded disk or disk fragment. Only surgery will relieve this. Not epidurals, not acupuncture, not biofeedback, or any other method. This is a mechanical issue, and ONLY can be relieved by surgery. The longer a disk fragment sits out there, the more scarring you can have. For example, if you have a bad gallblader, and it is full of stones, the only option and relief is to take the offending organ OUT! No pills, cremes, meditations, etc are going to fix it.
Your doctor may be a buffoon, and too arrogant to try something different (TENS, therapy, etc.), or to get another opinion.. True pain management includes long term medication management for some when there is no other option. This included low dose narcotics to get you through the day and working. A LOT of docs don't like to do this, there i sless money in it, and they are afraid of scrutiny by the DEA and Feds. Double whammy for the poor patient because of a few dishonest or mercenary docs.
I agree with the swimming and stretching advice on this thread. If possible this can help keep you loose and also help oxygen saturation for you. Always a plus. There was some research that tied smoking into continued low grade low back pain, but probably not enough evidence yet.
Good luck, this is a tough problem for many.
Ok, fast forward to today. That blind epidural cortizone shot did absolutely nothing. (Seriously, who thought it would?) I continued with land based physical therapy and have recently, within the last month and a half started hydro-therapy. While in the hydro tank I feel great, no pain. After a session I am in intense pain, so much so that I go immediately home and take my pain meds and go to bed.
Six weeks ago my doctor did injections in my back. Had to be about 12 at least, all over the lower back. It did nothing. Over the last week my back pain has intensified and I am unable to stand up straight. Back to that again. I can only walk hunched over and I have great difficulty getting out of a chair or out of bed. I went to see the doctor yesterday. He is sending me to a different pain clinic for another epidural cortizone injection, this time supposedly under xray and he mentions the possibility of facet injections. He also has prescribed a heavy duty custom fit back brace. I go for measurements for it later this week. I'm really not looking forward to more injections.
On top of all this backsliding (no pun) my long term disability insurer has keyed in on that on my last office visit my doctor wrote that I could work 2-2.5 hours per day with frequent breaks and rest periods. Because of that the insurer is making it sound like my claim is in jeopardy. When I told this to my doctor yesterday he all but broke out laughing. He said look at you! Do you think you could possibly work all hunched over like that in pain? He said he would set them straight, but it still concerns me.
I am so sorry to hear that after swimming/hydro therapy your pain level is increased. While I was swimming 3X's a week I was sleeping better, less stiffness in the AM, and just felt better all the way around.
Apparently, the epidurals are NOT working for you. I sure wouldn't consent to having anymore!!
Stick with the hydro therapy, and take a pain med BEFORE you go. That's what I did. I took a pain med just before leaving the house. By the time I was in the pool for 1/2 hr, I was not in any pain, and truly enjoyed that hour. I felt wonderful when I got out of the pool.....basically, I felt great for the rest of the day. I sure miss it. We don't have a local YMCA anymore. They closed up. Nearest one is in the next town over.....the cost of gas is the biggest problem going there.
Have you seen a Neurologist and had an EMG done? It's not a pleasant test, but they could pin point the exact nerve that's being irritated. Ask for your Primary doc to send you to a Neurologist for testing. Take the guess work out of the equation. Just a suggestion. Good Luck.
WELL HERE GOES MY STORY.I'VE HAD JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING I'VE READ ON THIS ISSUE!I'VE HAD DRS. IN OHIO,INDIANA,AND NOW FLORIDA.IF IT WEREN'T FOR MY HUBBY ,KIDS & GRANDKIDS I WOULDN'T BE HERE!I'M VERY LUCKY SO FAR, I'M NOT IN A WHEELCHAIR & I HAVE ALL MY BODY PARTS,BUT OMG, ONLY SOMEONE THAT'S BEEN THRU ALL THIS KNOWS WHAT WE GO THRU!MY LATEST RHUMY GAVE ME A SHOT IN MY SHOULDER 3WKS AGO & I'M TO GO BACK FRI. FOR 1 MORE. THEN I HAVE TO GET A DR TO FIX MY BACK ,HAND, SHOULDER,NECK,HIP,LEG & LOWER BACK!THE INS. WILL PAY THE PAIN MGMT. DR. $5000 A TRIP ,BUT NO THANKS! AFTER 2 LAST YR I HAD A STROKE! THANK GOD IT WAS A MILD ONE ,BUT SURE SCARED THE SHIT OUTTA ME.ENOUGH ABOUT ALL THAT. OTHERWISE I'M A KIND ,CARING ,LOVING PERSON & STILL HAVE SOME DIGINITY & THEY WON'T TAKE THAT AWAY FROM ME!!THANKS FOR LISTENING,TOOTSIEGOD BLESS US ALL!
Tootsie, was the stroke a result of your condition? You poor thing!! Lord, I understand where you're coming from....been thru all this crap, and it just gets worse & worse. I try to tell myself that there are so many others in lots worse shape than myself....I try not to whine about it or complain.....I have my moments though, where I just cry...out of frustration. I hate this arthritis. It's just a damn, dirty trick!! I always took care of myself....exercised, swam, ran track.....for what? This crap? It just came outta nowhere!!
I'd venture to say that ALL of us are sick & tired of going for Epidurals, doctor visits, seeing a Pain Management doc...the whole nine yards. I'm grateful that I have insurance, can get pain meds, etc. Just seems to me that with all the modern technology in the Medical Field they could come up with common cause of this stuff, and make it stop!! Halt it's progression. I'm watching my fingers & toes curling up, spreading apart.....I can hear my knees & hips 'pop'......my neck 'crunches' when I turn it.
I guess we're all at the doctors/insurance companies mercy....what choice do we have, short of just throwing in the towel, and laying down & dying........
HEY VIN THANKS FOR THE REPLY! HAVE 7 BRO & SIS,AND THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME TOO! PLUS MY ONE SIS HAS PARKINSON'S.ALL OF US HAVE WORKED SINCE WE WERE KIDS.(12)PLAYED BALL ,TAG ,HIDE-N-SEEK,JUMP-ROPE.TAUGHT EACH OTHER HOW TO DANCE, ROLLER SKATE,AND ABOUT EVERYTHING POOR BABYBOOMERS DID BACK THEN! NEVER DREAMED IT'D END UP LIKE THIS?GOTTA KEEP GOING, SO WE CAN TEACH OUR LITTLE ONES HOW TO SURVIVE SOME OF THESE BIG BUMPS IN THE ROAD AS WE GET SMARTER!GOTTA GO MY HONEY WILL BE HOME IN A BIT & STARVING. THE HEAT INDEX HAS BEEN 95 LATELY & HE WORKS OUT IN IT ALL DAY.BLESS HIS HEART I DON;T KNOW HOW HE DOES IT? I'AM BLESSED ,GOT A GOOD MAN & WONDERFUL FAMILY.I'LL CHECK IN TOMARROW,HAVE A GOOD NITE ,TOOTSIE
The hydro-therapy is not anything close to swimming. It is basically an underwater treadmill. The physical therapist makes me walk forwards, backwards, side steps in each direction, leg lifts, squats, etc. I don't think swimming would cause me to have the intense pain I am having after these hydro-therapy treatments. With regard to the pain medication, every pain medication I have tried makes me drowsy and sleepy, so I cannot take it if I have to drive. No public transportation out where I live, so I have to drive to my appointments.
Hey Tootsie....there's 8 of us kids, too. My one sister & I have arthrtis really bad, and a baby brother has it in his spine. The others are all OK.....just hit & miss. My parents didn't have it, but my Maternal Grandmother had it pretty rough. My daughter has it 10X's worse than myself. It normally skips a generation...not in my daughters case. It's pathetic. She's been thru so much over the past 9 yrs. She'll be 39 in July.
I swear...it had to be something in the baby formula with us 'BabyBoomers'. The Government did lots of testing without the publics knowledge back in the late 40's & early 50's. All the additives in food, food coloring & various chemicals....of course, the public was not made aware. That was back in the day when the FDA didn't exist. We're paying the price from all that testing! There are just too many of us with arthritis. Whether it's Osteo or Rheumatoid....just too many cases of it, in relatively young people. I've had it since I was 47....didn't realize it, of course, until I blew the disk out of my neck. That's when they discovered the severity of it. So advanced. Since the neck surgery, I've had both feet operated on, just to be able to walk. My toes are bending upwards, making the insides of my shoes (top) rub the skin almost off...I wear sandals, a lot!! I can't go barefoot, due to my arch falling in the left foot. The tendon has slipped from the heel, into my arch. Too painful to go barefoot.
Back in the 30's thru the late 70's younger adults having arthritis was virtually unheard of. Rare occassions where young kids would develope Rheumatiod arthritis, but they were few & far between. Being a retired Nurse, I continue to get my Nursing Journals. Been reading a lot about kids in their late teens being diagnosed with arthritis.....unreal!! It's a mystery, for sure. I think we 'BabyBoomers' passed on a gene of some sort to them......we handed it down to our young, and now our kids are passing the gene onto their kids.....pitiful.
That's just my take on it. Too much of a coincidence, don'tcha think?
Tootsie, I almost forgot....you are blessed to have such a wonderful hubby. My guy works 12 hr shifts.....he has arthritis, also. It's in his right hip & back. Had several epidurals with no success. Lord, it's a daily struggle for him. His job is so physically demanding. He pushes himself, then oays for it the next day. He split wood over the past 2 week-ends. Worked out back from 8AM until it got dark....we had 2 huge Oak trees taken down, and had to split the wood so it would be cured for winter. I bought him a log splitter, a few years back, while I was still working. Good investment. If he had to do that by hand....he'd be dead!!
He's a good man, but has become so moody & critical. I know a lot of it is because he just doesn't feel good. Getting older....he's not handling it, to well. He gets PO'd when he hurts like hell, and takes it out on me.....and then it's on.....he had little to NO sympathy when this all started with me. I get irritated, listening to him crab.....so, to prove a point he makes himself do things that he knows is gonna make him miserable the next day. Like he's telling the arthritis "You will NOT control my life!!" That's great...whatever works for him. I used to have a Harley...loved riding. It got to where I couldn't twist the throttle. He just couldn't phathom that...he's a seasoned rider, also. Kept telling me to make myself do it....yah, right. The hands would go to sleep....not cool, on a scooter. I ended up selling my bike. I miss it, but did enjoy riding when I was able to. He still rides....rarely does he take his chopper out, anymore. He rides a new Ultra Classic....push button start, not a kicker.....he's going out kickin' & screamin'.....I just sorta silently surrendered.
There was a time when he just didn't 'get it'.....why I hurt like I did, why I couldn't handle walking for hours at car shows....just trying to twist a doorknob, or the throttle on my Harley. He now realizes how it feels. He is lots more sympathetic, now that he has it, too!!
Just wanted to share that with you......thanks for listening. Sometimes, we just need to vent......
Rosemary, how about taking 1/2 the dose, so you don't become as sleepy/tired? Or, take some ES Tylenol before you go in for therapy. Sorta sounds like the hydro therapy is aggrevating the condition, more than helping it. Could you stop the 'therapy' and just swim? It's the best exercise in the world.....uses every muscle in your body. I feel that the water pushing against your legs, making your back strain even more, is what's irritating either your sciatic nerve or other nerves.
Before I had my neck surgery, my HMO made me go for PT. OMG, they could have paralyzed me with what they were doing. Rolling my head side to side inside of a towel.....I could hear my neck making these 'cracking' sounds, and the pain would shoot down my left arm. I couldn't handle it. I was almost hysterical before the session was over with...the pain was so intense, I would be shaking.
Once the arm started to shrink, that's when they decided to do the cervical diskectomy. Not all physical therapy is beneficial...some of it is actually harmful. I think this is your case......
I can't take pain meds until I am home. Even if I take 1/2 a pill, I feel drowsy and feel that my judgment is impaired. I have to wait until I arrive home after PT to take pain meds. I do take the 800 mg ibuprofen before physical therapy though.
Tomorrow I go for another epidural injection. This one is supposed to be under live xray and this new anesthesiologist is going to give me vercid to relax. I'm still always nervous about shots in my back because when I had an epidural when my son was born I lost consciousness. It really freaks me out to have anyone go near my back with a needle.
So besides this new epidural injection, I got my back brace on Friday. I have also been switched to a different physical therapist and am no longer doing hydro therapy. This new physical therapist is having me do what she calls "casting" every 2 hours. Which is lying on my stomach for 15 minutes every 2 hours. This is "supposed to" promote healing. It just makes me laugh, I'm sorry, my doc told me he wants them to work my abs, this is not working my abs at all, in fact if I made any progress with the previous land and hydro therapy, I'm thinking this is going to ruin any of the progress those therapies made. Just from the standpoint that I'm not doing anything to build up my abs. All they have me doing is "casting" every 2 hours. I think when my doc gets the physical therapist's report he is going to go ballistic.
Rosemary
Hi Sean,
I guess were all alittle naive when it comes to going to Dr's, but when your in pain we need to trust in someone and also why Dr's take a oath. We all have seen Dr's we shouldn't have and best we can do is move on. Was this Dr a pain Mgmt. Dr? If he was and did the shots without Fluroscope than that is just irresponsible, period...Scar tissue problems are quite common. Last year I went to a place in Florida called the Laser Spine Institute in Tampa, an there procedures are not as invasive as surgeries and they claim to be able to help with scar tissue pain.I went to see them and wanted to have the laser surgery done but had to put out 20,000 because my insurance did not cover the procedure. So I have to wait until next year, I am retired govt and can change my health insurance once per year. After the 1st of the year I will schedule the procedure and will have to come up with 5k instead of 20k. It might be something to look into. The site is www.laserspineinstitute.com.
Check it out, it may or may not help. Good Luck.
Scott
